Tires for sports cars
Hello everyone,
I’ve been meaning to write up a tire review for sports cars. Pascal had mentioned that he’s in the market for a 996 C4, and that he’s concerned about traction in the snow where he lives. I’ve driven a 996 C2 with NO PSM for 4 years, as my daily driver, logging almost 100K miles, and I drove in snow and ice as well, in the dead of winter. In my experience, driving it and other high HP RWD, and AWD cars, if you don’t have the right tires for the conditions you’re going to be driving in, electronic nannies (DSC, PSM, etc) and different drivetrains (FWD, RWD, AWD) don’t make much of a difference. It’s easy to forget that cars are kept on the asphalt by 4 palm sized patches of rubber! Scary thought when these tiny patches aren’t gripping the road surface you’re driving on! With this in mind, I’ve compiled a list of tires that are best suited for different conditions: track driving (dry and wet), daily driving in winter, and daily driving in summer/fall/spring.
There are a couple of key things to keep in mind before I get into the reviews. High performance cars, like Porsches, BMWs, and Ferraris, tend to have really wide tires. These tires are great for increasing the contact patch with the asphalt. However, there are a few disadvantages of having a wide tire:
- Increased road noise
- Increased tendency to hydroplane/aquaplane in rain and snow
- Tires and wheels weigh more… unsprung weight is the enemy of handling and responsiveness
- The bigger and wider your tires get, the smaller your selection gets for tires, and the more expensive tires become.
There’s no free lunch, and there’s always compromises to be made; by that I mean that the ideal setup for one set of conditions sucks for another set of conditions. I’ve suggested some compromises that favor safety and better handling in bad weather conditions, at the risk of sacrificing ultimate performance in the best of weather conditions.
Driving on public road in all seasons
I don’t tend to like all-season tires, since they are a little compromised in all weather conditions, compared to their season-specific counterparts. However, 17-19″ tires are very expensive, and it makes sense financially to find a tire that can work in all conditions. I’ve found the Bridgestone Potenza RE960AS Pole Position to be an excellent tire for varied weather conditions, dry/hot, wet/cold, light snow, and nice weather. There are very few tires that work so well in so many different conditions! These tires work very well in the wet, they are excellent at channeling water out from underneath them. They work very well in the cold… I’ve driven them in when the temperature was in the 20’s (F) and they worked fine; the grip was less than normal, but nothing even close to the lack of grip when driving with summer tire in these conditions! They work very well in light snow, and they are ok with a little ice and snow. If you get a lot of snow and really low temperatures, then you might want to opt for the full winter tires. The only issue with these tires is that they barely fit on GT3 wheels. You can get the biggest size and they will technically fit, but it’s tough to actually get them on, and you will see a gap between the inside-edge-of-the-rim and the tire-sidewall.
Driving on public roads in summer, spring, and fall
For non-winter daily-driving, I recommend the Michelin Pilot Sport PS2. These are some amazing tires! And they work amazingly well with the 997 chassis. I’ve never driven such high performance tires for as long I have with a set of the Pilots Sports. I’ve done 10 track days, and driven on public roads for about 20K miles before a set needed replacing! That’s amazing! They are really expensive, and they last a long time (for summer tires) and they perform spectacularly in the dry and wet. And even as they wear out performance falls off very gradually and predictably. They get really noisy and performance falls off drastically letting you know loud and clear when they’re ready to be changed. Hands down, this has to be the best set of tires I’ve had on my Porsche, and I’ve had just about every kind of high performance tire available on the market (DOT-R compound tires included, not counting full racing slicks).
Driving on public roads in winter
If the Bridgestone tires won’t do the trick, and you drive in some extreme weather conditions, then we must look elsewhere. The only problem with winter-only tires is that they don’t come in large sizes, so if you have GT3 wheels, good luck. You have to get a set of winter wheels, that are smaller and thinner. For extreme winter conditions, nothing beats the Bridgestone Blizzaks; they are winter-only, non-snow-chain tires. They are incredible on ice and heavy snow, but they don’t come in sports car wheel sizes. For sports car applications (big wheels) I like the Michelin Pilot Alpin PA2 tires. They are not good when the temps rise above 40F or so… they are serious winter weather tires. They do very well in deep snow and light ice. I also like the Pirelli Winter 240 SnowSport tires.
Driving on the track (wet and dry conditions)
Ah yes, track driving 
. I recommend the Michelin Pilot Sport PS2 as a great all around track tire. If you want even more performance, then I recommend the Michelin Pilot Sport Cup. They are great in the rain, when they have tread… but as the tread gets worn, they don’t do very well in the rain. If you have a 2nd set of wheels, then you can put the Pilot Sport Cups on one set and the Pilot Sports on another. They are DOT approved track tires, and are incredibly sticky when they get hot! There are other tires that you can get for racing applications, but for track days the Sport Cups are great. You can drive home in them from the track . Be very careful when driving them in the cold! Until they get heated up, they have little/no grip!!! I have seen many a driver smash their expensive sports car into guard rails or worse, because their red fog kept them from warming up their tires, before pushing it! I myself have kissed a guard rail while driving to the track with DOT-R compound tires installed in ice-rain conditions 
. Not something you want to experience.
Car control
You need a car with good tires and brakes. Once you have that I can’t emphasis the importance of car control in dicey environmental conditions. There’s no substitute for your eyes, brain, hands, and feet. Electronic nannies are still reactive in their nature… they can’t predict what you’re about to do. In the future, they will be able to, but until we get there, Skid Pad is a great exercise to do to keep your skills and responses sharp in bad weather. I recommend doing Skid Pad in the rain, in the snow, and the ice, in the car that you will be driving. I’ve done skid pad in any kind of land-going vehicle I could get my hands on – light, fast, slow, heavy, wobbly vehicles . In just about every weather condition I could find (ice, snow, heavy snow, and heavy ice, and heavy rain in the cold). I don’t mean to be preachy, but Skid Pad is not to be underrated. You don’t want to run out of talent and skill when things go sideways .
Freude Am Fahren
Nazmul
Hi Nazmul,
SO GREAT !!!
Perfect and very comprehensive review, thanks a million
I will definitely bookmark this in my favorite pages.
I see the experience behind the words, you should add more posts like this one.
Thanks again!
Pascal
Thanks Pascal. Nazmul is a really great driver, and I aspire to drive like him one day. He was a born race car driver.
.
I’m wishing I had winter/snow tires on right now. It is 32 degrees F and raining and icing and it is scary driving to work and back. Last year the 911 got stuck at work in the snow. I couldnt get out of the parking lot so i had to leave it there all alone fr 2 days buried in snow, I took a taxi home. But last year in the winter i had high performance summer tires on it…hehe. This yr i have high performance all seasons, which is a little better
Thanks Izabel. When I grow up, I want to be a race car driver… Just need to make my company profitable, find some sponsors, and go racing!!!
Hi Pascal
You’re most welcome!
. I’m glad you enjoyed the post. And thank you for your kind words. I will definitely post more driving and car stuff 
. I think my next one will be on aftermarket exhausts 
. I can do some on performance driving as well. Let me know what you think. I have lots of entertaining driving stories to share 
. I only wish I had a video camera mounted in my car when these stories actually happened 
.
Take care
Nazmul.
Izabel,
In my personal opinion the Bridgestone Turenza is one the best All Season tires on the road. For high performance i would say the Bridgestone 03R, this is virtually a race tire for the street. I do also like the Michilen Pilot Sports are a good tire as well. I had first hand experience with these different tires.
Jeff
Hi Jeff
Welcome to the DLG community. Thanks for your recommendation. That’s cool that Turenza’s are great tires. The only issue I can see with them are that they don’t come in really large sizes… the 911 GT3 rear tires for example are 295/30ZR19! I looked on the Turenza website, and they don’t have anything in that size .
I really like Bridgestone tires, although the new crop of Michelins are awesome! I will have to try the 03R’s when I need a new set.
Take care
Nazmul
I prefer Michilen Pilot Sports
If you want an alternative to the Pilot Sport Cups for track use The Pirelli P-Zero Corsa is a Great Tire and Comes on the GT3 RS as Standard Like the PS Cups
I have had many reports that they even perform better than the PS Cups in certain situations.
Hi Manni
Welcome to the DLG community. Good choice with the P-Zero Corsa. I like the Toyo Proxes DOT R compound tires as well. Do you know how the Pirelli’s wear? The Proxes last a good while, and the Michelin’s do too…
Take care
Nazmul
The corsas don’t wear out as quickly as the PS Cups.
Cool. Good to know
. I will update the post with all the information in this discussion thread later.
Thanks again
Nazmul.
For the track I admit to going a different way, and have preferred Hoosiers for years. I find they grip the most and have by far the most comfortable breakaway characteristics of any tire at this adhesion level. Yes, I fully agree there are several slicks that are better still, but for racing in “R” classes, the R6 is pretty darn good.
As for the street, I am struggling a bit myself on this. I have to “reshoe” an older ‘86 944 T (true Porsche factory spec racecar from that era converted to street duty). It has 8×16 on the front and 9×16 in the rear. Originally I was planning to go with 245/45s all the way around, but the Kumho VictorRacer V700 comes in both 245/45 for the front & 265/45 for the rear. Sadly, the Michelins no longer are made in 245/45-16s = sigh. The Toyo R888 is another option (in 245/45 all the way around) and a local friend (Dallas) suggested I give the Hankook Ventus Z212 a try. Any and all suggestions welcomed. Car is only driven around 1500 miles a year, sunny days.
Hi Dave,
Welcome to the DLG community. Thanks for the info on the Hoosiers. I don’t have any data on competition tires, just track day (street legal DOTR, and high performance summer) tires. So hopefully there will be enough information on the discussion thread so that I can compile a bunch of data on competition tires
.
Since you’re looking for DOT R compound tires for you 944T, I recommend the Toyo R888, they are great tires. When they have tread, they are decent rain tires… but as the tread wears out, they are useless in the rain
. But since you will be driving low mileage on sunny days, they are great. I’ve never used the Hankook Ventus or the VictoRacer, so I can’t comment on those… but I’ve used the R888’s and like them a lot.
Take care
Nazmul.
Thanks for the input on the streets! Greatly appreciated. And you’re the second to recommend the R888s for the street (especially since the 1R1s don’t come in the needed size, and may be a little extreme for the street anyway).
One other option I’ve been given is, while Michelin has discontinued the Pilot Sports in 16″ for the most part, the Pilot Sport Cups are available still in 245/45-16, a tempting option as well. Three amigos of mine have all run them on street p-cars and while they’ll die within 5-6,000 miles, their bigger concern was how long it will take me to reach 6,000 miles!
I’ll admit the only reason I even considered the Hankooks at all is that they have a 265/45 for the rear, and who doesn’t appreciate a little more rubber, even if just for the look of it.
It’s only January, so I still have a bit more time before it’s early Spring, even here in Texas (not my native state, but boy I’ve gotten used to the weather!).
Thanks for great posts.
BTW, there are many racers who use the R888 or even the Victor racers for practicing, and then switch to Hoosiers for qualifying and racing. I’ve found the switch is good for at least a second or two (track dependent), but have never warmed to the back-and-forth as some have. Since the car’s handling is so different on the two tires, I find the practice time (other than to learn a new track) is just not productive, and you can find yourself making tweaks that won’t work once you switch back to the Hoosiers.
Hey – just one guy’s opinion.
Now if only tires/wheels were so cheap you could carry around a couple sets of several for comparisons. Oh well, I could have worse fantasies.
Hi Dave,
You’re most welcome!
I think you will like the Toyo tires on the street. They aren’t “delicate”, so you don’t have to worry about punctures because you ran over some rocks or something. They grip a lot until they die, and when you push them (when they are not dead), they provide warning before breaking loose… I find this to a totally subjective thing… one man’s early warning, is another man’s not enough warning.
Have you considered getting the Pilot Sports? They aren’t DOT R compounds, but are very good, and you don’t have to worry about them wearing out anytime soon. The R888’s do wear very quickly… but that’s to be expected of such soft compound tires. And you have to worry about how many heat cycles you put into that thing… I don’t know, the Pilot Sports are a worry free option for me
. On my 997S I don’t have to mess with tire pressures, with the Pilot Sports, so that makes me very happy 
. Worry free enjoyment 
.
That makes sense what you said about practicing on DOT R compound tires. Again, so much of that is subjective, and maybe even subject to the racer’s budget. What works for one racer might be a total waste of time for another
. It’s just great to be out there on the track 
.
These tires are too expensive
. If you go with the Pilot Sports, they won’t be cheap up front, but boy, do they last a LONG time!!! From that perspective, you might actually end up saving some money over a longer period of time? 
It would be nice to have an unlimited budget for such things… maybe one day…
You are most welcome for the posts
. I plan on doing lots more. It’s great to see such positive feedback from the rapidly growing community we have here 
. I think for my next post, I’m going to do a writeup of aftermarket exhausts 
. After that I want to start a writeup of my favorite race tracks, and on and on. I’m looking forward to the BlackBerry app, it will allow us to stay connected to the community, the content and discussions while on the road. I can’t wait for the app!!! 
.
Take care
Nazmul.
I love the Micheling Pilots on my car now (Maserati), although the first set did not last very long. I had the Pirellis on my 355 and it seemed to feel greasy and mushy, I did not like them at all. Having the Continentals on my Boxster S, I thought they were ok in the dry, not so much in the wet. They were replaced with Kumho Ecsta at the recommendation of the PCA guys and the Kumhos were great all around tires. Good wet/dry and I was able to replace all 4 (18in wheels) for under $800
Hi Paul
Welcome to the DLG community!
Thanks for posting your comment. I had the same problem with Pirelli PZeros. I found them to wear out really quickly! Also I drove at the track with them, and they felt really greasy and mushy… at the time I found the Bridgestone S03 Pole Positions to be much better tires. The Michelin Pilot Sports are awesome! And they last a long time, given their hi-performance summer tire nature.
I also concur with your Continental assessment
. Kumhos are great for a reasonably priced tire that performs quite well. That’s great that you got all 4 tires replaced for under $800!
I haven’t driven a Maserati. Do you have the Coupe or the Quattroporte. I think the community, and myself, would benefit from your assessment and review of the car, how it handles, is it reliable, etc? Thoughts on making a post? If you decide to do so, there is a great getting started tutorial here: http://drivelikeagirl.com/?page_id=32#tutorial
Take care
Nazmul.
You may not have experience with Toyo brand Tires, but their selection of performance rubber is great.
http://www.toyo.com/docs/tires/tires.asp?category=sport
The technology behind TOYO products is really unparalleled and the support that the company has shown in many disicplines of motorsports is outstanding. If you are afforded the opportunity to get some new street meats consider TOYO TIRES
Hi Micah
I do have experience with Toyo tires. I used to use the Proxes R888 (DOT R compound) at the track. They are great! Thanks.
Take care
Nazmul.
yeah I actually read your post after I made my comment.
No worries, long lists of threaded comments can be confusing
. Thanks for reading and commenting 
.
I agree with the advice you give! I’d like to consider the Dunlop Star Spec DZ tires for good all around summer/track/rain use. Not as much ultimate grip on the dry track as the Pirelli tires you mentioned, but in the rainy pac nw i found them to be excellent compromise tire (track/summer/daily rain use).
Totally agree about the right tire for the job and love blizzaks for a winter tire. And, specifically, here in the usa where speed limits are extremely low, the WS-60 is a great go-to winter tire that I strongly recommend.
I track my car (instructor), and have driven awd, fwd, rwd, hi-power, low-power and grew up in the midwest, so I have a lot of different driving conditions under my belt. Great write-up!
Hi Peter
Welcome to the DLG community. Sorry about the late response. That’s great that you have good experience with the Dunlops. I find the Michelin Pilot Sport and Bridgestone Potenza S03 Pole Position to be great rain tires! Have you tried them out?
Blizzaks are some kind of wonderful
. I couldn’t believe the traction I had in my 3 series, the first time I tried them out a few years ago. Amazing stuff. They melt when it gets hot 
.
I’m glad that you enjoyed the post. I encourage you to share any interesting track stories you might have with the DLG community. That’s great to hear that you have so much experience in different cars and driving conditions
. Its fun to drive all different kinds of cars as the track as well, for me anyway 
. Each car has it’s unique set of strengths and weaknesses, and each car has to be driven differently to get the most speed out of it….
Take care
Nazmul.
For high-performance summer R-comp (i.e. DOT street-legal) tires, you cannot go wrong with the Nitto NT-01 tires. Amazing grip and durability. The absolute best tire out there, save for a set of dedicated Race-Only slicks.
I have been running the NT-01s on my BMW ‘00 M coupe for some time now and have been completely impressed with the level of grip, communication to the driver and consistency under a wide band of temperatures.
My $0.02.
-B.
Byron,
Very cool!! Do you go to track often? Or is your M Coupe a daily driver? Or both ?
Yes I drive like a girl, although I am a post menopausal male….driving with the Porsche Owners Club…www.porscheownersclub.org IMHO, the best overall, long wearing, kick ass bargain track tire is the Toyo RA-1…they have a 100 hardness rating which means you could drive them on the street..not advisable. I have run through too many sets to count the past few years on my 97 Carrera Track/street car.
Tire Rack always has pretty decent analysis of tires….
Hi Martin
Welcome to the DLG community. Thanks for posting a comment. Porsche Owners Club sounds like a very interesting driving club. I currently drive like a girl with PCA. That’s great that you enjoy the RA1’s; they are really great tires. It’s cool that you drive your 911 on the track and the street; I do the same
. From the track, to the grocery store, to the mall…. mostly the mall 
.
Izabel